It was new and adventurous, and that's who Deanna wanted to be. New to This American Life? But it seemed like they were not obvious to Don. Uh-- should I say something? It made sense to her. I don't know how you can understand what happened without speaking to the people who are saying, something happened to me. This did seem like a violation of the agreement. Or something like that. And you know, and I was really proud that she was basically saying, you're not one of them. ... sexual harassment.

It was the same power that Onnesha did not want to use when she asked Don for a raise, the power of The Hypnotizer. And I believe him. He said no, no, I'll give you a ride. The women who worked for Don at AlterNet, beginning with Act 1, "Deanna. He definitely tried to physically grab me a lot. And so I kind of-- I defended him. And I said, how come? This American Life is produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago and delivered to stations by PRX The Public Radio Exchange. Maybe everyone should be a little bit more chill. Like, it was definitely not the most appropriate thing to do to a female subordinate, right? You didn't-- he hadn't told you about it before. She loved this word. It wasn't like a decision or anything, it was just instinct. He had a rally in New York before her 28th birthday. He was 12, so was she. And so my default was to trust that it was going to be OK. The staff was friendly. Men also seemed to want her, but had no thoughts about what else that might look like. I just sat there the whole time, like I didn't know. Kristen's apartment flooded, and she got a payout from her landlord. She couldn't. He was angry and insecure. She was in the back room where the staff took breaks and wrote notes.

By now, they were working on a book together. Are you OK? Now, Kristen was full of urgency, and she was ready to fight. Chris worked at the dollar store in the mall. This is not a big deal.

Of course you're being sexually harassed. Don thought she was a poor fit for her corporate job. And he kind of leaned in, and was like, oh, are you having trouble paying rent? He was generous with his attention, and controlling, usually at the same time. Not I don't feel like it, but I love you sex. And he just did it so casually.

I'm still working on that. In just one year, everything in one ordinary public middle school changed. It just felt like they wanted me to cry, and act like it was the worst thing that ever happened to me, and I was so violated. (6 minutes), Don’s behavior grows increasingly troubling to Deanna. I can tell you some about his version of events, but you won't be hearing from him. So Tana thought, maybe there was no unspoken agreement between them.

And it's intentional, and that's why it's scary. Why not? Yeah, he did.

(MOCKING TONE) Use your boobs. He kept insisting, I am the most feminist man you know, and you know it. And I was like, you've got to be fucking kidding me. It was intercepted by a teacher. Kristen is going to come back. Yeah. Cutting his meat, like she was leaning over his plate? There's really no rationalization. When Don sat her down, it was not what she'd imagined. I think I got it. I know why he's ordering sushi, and offering me weed, and repeatedly asking me if I like his music. You would have gotten more money.

And then he would get really assertive, and red-faced, eyes bulging, you know, veins popping, and he was scary as shit when he was angry. She was powerful, interesting, could change his mind on important issues. And my reaction was like, all right, everyone, everyone's being hysterical here. Deanna hadn't been with Don for years at this point. Because Don brushed that idea off as ridiculous.

I'm Ira Glass. Deanna said she wanted to help in whatever way she could, and Deanna prayed that Kristen would not ask her, what happened to you? I've had it since I was 16. They tell us not only about their troubling encounters with him, but also about their lives beforehand. I think I said something like, oh, haha, yeah.

Deanna moved out three weeks before 9/11. She agreed. That first time Don drove her home and put his hand on her knee, Tana did not say, no. And then I thought she was angry with me, because I wasn't freaking out about this letter. I just convinced this, like, editor guy. I thought about Kristen when she said that, how alert Kristen was to a violation that was not definitively over the line. We commissioned an original cover of “9 to 5,” by Merrill Garbus of Tune-Yards. She wanted to be supportive, the way he'd been supportive of her, but this felt all new to her. Jan does remember Kristen telling him about this, but does not recall responding in this way. (VOICE BREAKING) I'm sorry.

This American Life tells the story of ongoing sexual harassment at Alternet by Don Hazen Riveting long form reporting in interviews with several women, including the partner of Don Hazen, executive director of Alternet, serial harasser and abuser: Over the last few months of Me Too stories, I keep wanting to hear more from the women who were in the news reports, their broader history, not just the bad experience they had with one man at an office or on a movie set, but the other moments before the harassment, because there is no Me Too moment that is actually separate from the rest of our lives. Oh, she's here. Khristen, a single mom, decides to secretly record her home inspector to catch him sexually harassing her. Act 2, "The Dinner." There was no office in New York, so it was easy to pretend this was appropriate.

I've got to. I am the most feminist man you know, and you know it. And I can't remember how I found out, but eventually I found out it was me. This is messed up. I wasn't waiting anymore to call something what it was.

And she could imagine some girl might enjoy that note. And it's just never struck me as a power. Fortunately, I didn't have the opportunity to screw myself over that way. Kristen was a determined 21-year-old who bought the same breakfast sandwich from the same cafe everyday, because she knew what she liked and she had no need for wasting time.

What I remember caring about was the guidance counselor for not just letting it be a stupid kid thing, and making it into like an attempted rape or something. You were not performing victim of sexual harassment correctly. She looked just like you. So I remember once we were at lunch, he was like Tana, what do you have to say? It gave her more power professionally to have the attention of the most powerful person in the office, even if it meant accepting the attention that was not professional, like when Don kept telling her he wanted to buy her a black cocktail dress he thought would look great on her body. Don't you love me? You know, we were just kind of, like, chit-chatting.

And I was like, are you kidding me? Oh, she's, like, cutting his meat for him. And he did not want to give me a raise. Then I was like, mom and dad, I have something to tell you. LaDonna sets out to understand how this place is run. He made Tana uncomfortable, but he was so pitiful that it felt unreasonable to attach any value to her discomfort. So she'd see him in his office. And he was like, oh, give it to me. It was a professional contact who said she wanted to ask Deanna about something serious. You're fine. It's all in fun-- which I do think was his attitude-- which I know was his attitude. I need to know where things are. Don resigned from his job a few months ago, and told me the board that oversees AlterNet insisted he couldn't talk on the record.